Chapter Blue

Supporting the Badge: A Chaplain's Journey with Jeff Kunze

• Tyra Valeriano • Episode 4

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Join us as Tyra Valeriano sits down with Jeff Kunze, a dedicated volunteer police chaplain from Kansas City, to explore how he's reshaping mental health support in law enforcement. Jeff shares his incredible journey, from being a pastor to becoming a trusted ally for officers, offering a safe space where they can open up without fear of judgment. Together, they discuss how the stigma surrounding mental health is gradually changing.

Jeff talks about the challenges and triumphs of establishing a police chaplaincy program, emphasizing the importance of inclusivity and diversity by involving chaplains from different faiths. He also reflects on walking the fine line between offering spiritual care and respecting personal boundaries, highlighting how essential leadership support is in making these initiatives thrive.

This conversation goes beyond the surface, shedding light on the emotional toll of law enforcement work and the role chaplains play during some of the most critical moments in officers' lives. Jeff shares powerful stories of resilience, trauma, and healing, including the transformative impact of programs like the War Horse initiative. He also opens up about his own journey with therapy, finding strength in humor, and the importance of self-care for those who provide care to others. 

You can contact Jeff Kunze on LinkedIn by searching the name Jeffrey Kunze.

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Tyra Valeriano:

Welcome to Chapter Blue, the podcast where we discuss the world of law enforcement through an honest conversation on tough or controversial topics, real stories, perspectives and experience from officers all around the world. Whether you're here for insights on mental health, self-care, work-life balance, getting into law enforcement, getting out of law enforcement, or just trying to learn about personal and professional challenges officers face every day, you've come to the right place. I'm your host, tyra Valeriano, and whether I'm going solo or speaking with a guest, each episode will discuss different aspects of life behind the badge. Let's turn the page and step into Chapter Blue. Hey everyone, thank you for tuning into Chapter Blue. We have made it to our fourth episode and the support from friends, family, social media and my guests has been extremely motivating. I got a couple of messages that shared with me what they'd like to see more of moving forward based on recommendations and value received from my guests. So I will be implementing these suggestions, moving forward. For those listeners out there who are able to grab bits and pieces of each episode that does apply to them. So thank you, guys, for the feedback. It is appreciated and well received.

Tyra Valeriano:

Now for today's episode. I will be speaking with Jeffrey Kunze, but we can call him Jeff. He is currently in the Kansas City area and is a chaplain for law enforcement. Even though Jeff is not serving as a first responder, he volunteers his time to establish rapport with officers in his area in a very unique way that creates a relationship with a resource that most officers have one never experienced, or two they skip out on because chaplains only come around for a debrief, which I will say that's probably more of my experience. But before I take any more time away from him, hi, jeff, thanks for joining me today all the way from Kansas City. Can you tell our listeners a little more about your background and what your involvement in law enforcement is?

Jeff Kunze:

Yes, thanks for having me. I've been in ministry for about 33 years and through that entire time I have worked with or around law enforcement. It's just something that's kind of always come up in terms of getting to know officers and their families and serving them, and I'm presently serving a congregation in the Kansas City area. My police chaplaincy career on an official capacity took place in the St Louis area, and that was from 2002 to 2008. And then I took a call to serve a congregation here in the Kansas City area.

Jeff Kunze:

But word gets out, you've got someone who has worked with law enforcement law enforcement. So I have worked with agencies that I think, maybe more on an unofficial capacity, with officers reaching out to me to meet with them and to do what I can to help them. There's an agency right now that's recruiting me to be part of their chaplaincy, and for me, my experience has been as a volunteer chaplain. So there are some chaplains that are commissioned police officers that get paid by the city or the county, and so my experience has always been as a volunteer.

Tyra Valeriano:

Okay, I want to just jump right into it. Just because of your background, from your perspective, why is mental health such a critical issue for law enforcement today?

Jeff Kunze:

I think it always has been an issue. I just think it's better addressed right now. The stigma that goes with I've got issues or I've got a problem where I need to talk to someone is less, I think, for a while because I'm kind of old for a while, if you mentioned that you're struggling mentally or emotionally, someone might think that their job's on the line. Um, someone might think that their job's on the line and so to hold that in. And you know, with police officers it's all about control for safety's sake, to control their environment, control the situation, um, and I think some of that works its way into control your emotions, control how that particular scene or incident has affected you and I I believe that now, more recently, the door's opening up to you can let go of some of that control and talk about what you've experienced. And it's okay to be human. I've got plenty of stories of working with officers that you have to break down that barrier and say let's talk.

Jeff Kunze:

And as a police chaplain, I found myself to be in a unique position. One of many resources that the officer has you have peer support. You've got the therapist or counselor that's provided by the agency. You've got their supervisor. A chaplain can play a unique role because we're a safe place. I'm not your supervisor. A chaplain can play a unique role because we're a safe place. I'm not your supervisor, I'm not your shrink, so you can say whatever you want to me. As long as you don't want to hurt yourself or somebody else, it stays with me.

Tyra Valeriano:

So what's a good way for you to approach officers who are reluctant to talk about the struggles that they're having? Because, obviously, the first step is saying, hey, I want to talk to you and yes, even though you're not their shrink, how is it that you're able to get them to open up and talk about the struggles that they're having?

Jeff Kunze:

It begins with developing relationships and I know chaplains have their own stereotype at least chaplains do the agency that I served in the St Louis area. When I was being introduced to one of the roll call shifts, I remember one officer saying to me well, I hope I never have to see you. I'm like what, what do you mean? And so my first thing is I want to get in that guy's car and get to know him. Right things. I want to get in that guy's car and get to know him.

Jeff Kunze:

Where I believe this is just my opinion where I think some chaplains get into trouble is they feel that they're on a mission to share their faith with that officer because they are, by definition, clergy. If that's your first priority, you're probably going to fail. If your first priority is just to get to know that person, ask them questions why did you go into law enforcement? Get to know. You know as much as they're willing to share and don't ask stupid questions about hey, have you ever seen something really bad? Or you know.

Jeff Kunze:

And it's breaking down some of those stereotypes of a police chaplain that I had to do to start with and to let them know I'm not a cop wannabe. I'm not going into this because I want to be around guns and badges and all that's so cool. I'm in here because I genuinely care about what you do. I have a good understanding of what you do, but I need to understand the culture first and be accepted into that culture. That means I'm not going to bring judgments. As a police chaplain, I served many who were claimed to be agnostic or atheist, but I cared for them the same I did with all the others. I want to get to know you as a human being, and so that relationship has to be built with integrity. Then I think, the door opens.

Tyra Valeriano:

And that's really important to know, and that's really important to know. So, for those of the officers that are listening today, what can you define for them that makes your role different than a shrink or a counselor? What do you do that makes your position?

Jeff Kunze:

different than that. Yeah, I mean because and I don't know what it's like in the agencies for the officers who are listening here I mean if there are some supervisors who are listening, who have under their supervision the chaplains. God bless you, thank you, continue to support them. Chaplains need training to what to say, what not to say, how to be present, and it's really going to come down to trust. I think police departments are the greatest gossip machines on the planet and I mean they beat old ladies who are quilting in a church basement. I mean they are great gossip machines and I mean that it can be in a very good way. And if you are serving an officer and develop some trust with that officer and he or she tells another officer, hey, you can go to this chaplain, you know, you can trust them. That goes a long way. You burn the bridge with one and word's going to get out. This guy just wants to shove Jesus down your throat. And so I think for the officer, I think it goes both ways the police officer can also encourage the chaplain and, I guess, be able to say I respect what you're doing, thank you for being here.

Jeff Kunze:

I think that role of the chaplain needs to be defined by the department, by the agency, by the department, by the agency and one of the agencies I'm working with now. They're more reactive chaplaincies chaplains rather than proactive, and reactive is a whole different world. I don't expect relationships to build with that because all you're doing is reacting to. The department says, hey, we need a chaplain on scene or we need the chaplain for some public event marriage, prayer, breakfast, breakfast, whatever just to be out in front of the people. Oh, there might be a funeral or something, because the family's got a grandfather and they don't have a church home or something like that. Call the chaplain when you need them. Whereas my approach is to be proactive and to get in there and remind the officers I was working with that I am a safe place, I will keep things confidential and you can share whatever you want your greatest fears or your successes or whatever. Every chaplain will be tested, tested with that confidence, but even more tested the fact that we're clergy.

Jeff Kunze:

I get more cussing around me than probably the other officers. You know it. Just, you know I had a little goatee once and and they're like, hey, jump and shave that shit off your face, just waiting to see. You know, get a ride on me. Like what are you going to say? Oh, you said a bad word. I'm like, yeah, so I? I think it requires the boundaries to be articulated, you know, and not such in a formal way, but I mean because a to see you said to me this is what I need to do. I want you to see me, I want you to be able to reach out to me if there's some stuff going down, if your world is spinning out of control.

Tyra Valeriano:

You know, I want to say in my career I vaguely remember having any kind of contact with the chaplain. I want to say there was two critical incidents that the department or the agency experienced where we did have the chaplain come in to do a debrief with the officers and I want to say that's the only time that I ever really saw the chaplain on the officer side, the law enforcement side.

Tyra Valeriano:

So I want to get into the leadership role of law enforcement and how that can benefit you in connecting with police officers. Do you feel that it is the leaders or the sergeants that need to bring you in and inform their officers about what it is that you're providing for them as a resource? Because I can tell you, in the academy I don't recall ever really having the discussion of the chaplain being something that is a resource for police officers.

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it has to start with the leadership. Yeah, and the agency that I served in the St Louis area. I was invited in by the chief of police. They were wanting to build their chaplain corps, chaplain unit, and I had not been a chaplain before, I'd worked with, met with police officers as a pastor and the relationship's kind of already established there by that title, but it was new in the law enforcement arena and so now if the police chief isn't liked by a lot of patrol, then you know, then you've got some bridge building to to do there. But if the chief is well respected and liked and he brings in this chaplain, then you get to start on a pretty good foot now. Uh, there was a lieutenant that was our supervisor. You get to start on a pretty good foot. Now, there was a lieutenant that was our supervisor.

Jeff Kunze:

It was me and three other chaplains and it took their support, not just in helping get the word out on what our chaplains are here to do, but our budget, our training, our equipment. You know we ask for vests because we're doing ride-alongs we are sitting shotgun with. We get trained on the car. We get, uh, I would, I would go. Uh, they invite me to the range, which I loved, you know, to learn to shoot. I think I was asked many times for new officers Um, what are you going to do if things go sideways and you know I'm like, well, I'll you know're asking me.

Tyra Valeriano:

Am I going to pray or shoot, right, you know, maybe both.

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, I mean we'll start with. You know, if you're threatened or something's bad, I can help eliminate the threat. Yeah, they're going down. No, you're asking what's my core beliefs on capital punishment. It would be horribly unfortunate, but I'm not going to sit there and pray. It would be horribly unfortunate, but I'm not going to sit there and pray, although there was many times afterwards that there were some prayers, thinking good Lord, I am a volunteer and we almost died, but the supervision, or the higher-ups, that is so important. I helped build a chaplaincy in the Kansas City area with a smaller department and my advice there was you need to invite these pastors in who first shown a um a desire to do this. We were always leery of those pastors that knocked on our door and said we want to be a police chap. Why do you want to be one? You know, I think it's easier to recruit them and say will you use your gifts and skills in this culture and are you willing to learn and understand the culture?

Tyra Valeriano:

I mean, that's a great question to be asking. Why are you here, especially if you're not familiar with, you know, the law enforcement world and what they actually deal with and you're just coming in. Hey, I want to do this. That's a great question to be wondering. Why are you knocking on our door? What's making you want to be here?

Jeff Kunze:

Well, and maybe more has to be said. In the academy or police departments, agencies, sheriff's offices, I mean to be more proactive in building a chaplain corps or unit within the agency If he gets bogged down in separation of church and state. No, you're not asking them to come and proselytize or to try to get them, to recruit them to their church or to their faith. We had in my chaplain unit, we had a rabbi that we could go to for the officers of Jewish faith, for the officers of Jewish faith, but we didn't have one that committed to being in our chaplain corps, but we had a Catholic priest and we just had other Christian ministers. But my training there was if I'm in the field and I'm working with a grieving family, helping with the death notification, for instance, I'm not to impress my faith upon them, but if they ask me to pray with them, I would let them know I'm Christian and so I'm going to have a Christian prayer. Are you okay with that? And if they would say no, we're Muslim, or we're okay with them, see if I can find an imam, see if I can help you find someone. Right now I'm here to care for you and my role there was the officer needed me to help with the scene. That's full of grief, but really my job is to help that officer out so they can do the best of what they do, right? That means everybody in the room is going batshit crazy and if I can help calm that scene down, then I would do that as a chaplain until they could remove the body or do whatever, um, but then ultimately they sit down with that officer later and say are you doing? Okay, you know if it's a child, if it's whatever it might be, and sat in quite a few debriefs too with the use of deadly force.

Jeff Kunze:

I was thankful that my agency would say, like you've had in your experience, they would bring a chaplain in and help do that debrief. And that would happen initially, right? I mean, I was there right after the officer. The detectives are taking his weapon and everything. It's an investigation, it's a homicide. And after he was interviewed, um, the captain said, all right, now you're gonna have him, and so I'd sit down with them and and, and the officer knew me already because I'd already been in his car. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't some strange person that just showed up, because I I would be around the station, you know, if there's police chaplains listening to this, be present. So many officers would say before. We never saw our chaplain, unless he or she was needed right be present, you know, walk around and smack talk with them.

Jeff Kunze:

I don't know. You know you're making it when they start teasing you. Right, that's the truth, like they're doing everybody else that is the truth.

Tyra Valeriano:

I want to ask you something. I find it really interesting how different your role is in a police agency compared to what I've experienced during my career. What is a normal day for you like when you are at the department, and what are you doing with the police officers? How are you engaging yourself with them so that, when that day comes and they do need you, they're familiar? Because I can tell you, there's probably one major incident that I recall and I wouldn't have felt comfortable talking to the chaplain, and it's not because he's a stranger and I'm concerned about that, but it's just. Once again, it goes back to that stigma. We don't want to talk about those things, especially with people we don't know, and expose ourselves to someone who's saying, hey, I'm here for you, this is what I do, and you don't know anything about them. So what is a normal day for you like when you're there at the agency or the department?

Jeff Kunze:

Because mine has always been volunteer. I'm not quitting my day job and so I would tell my day job I need to block this time. Now you have the on call, where you can't schedule major incidences right, they just happen. So it could be the middle of the night, whatever. But just on a, on a relationship building, um, I would try to be there for a whole shift. Get there, um, we called it muster but a roll call and then I would talk with the supervisor of that shift and say you know, is there someone that you want me to get into the car with? If I'm not doing a ride along, then it is just walking around the station because you've got support staff, you've got your detectives, investigators are up there, you know, at their seats, and and then you got the command staff and to be able to go talk with them. And how are they doing? So it wasn't just.

Jeff Kunze:

I think there's patrol chaplains and I was in a meeting not long ago. They were trying to define a patrol chaplain versus an administrative chaplain. I don't think you should make that a difference, that you're just a patrol, you're just administrative. I think you know you're there to care for them. The word spiritual might scare some people, but what makes it different is if they go see the shrink they may not know the shrink, but the shrink's doing their job. They want to make sure that you're okay.

Jeff Kunze:

Men, slow to return to work. The supervisor's doing their job, not saying they don't care for you as a human being, but, um, the chaplain brings a little different level of care care for you as a human being, who you are, as a person, and again, not there to try to impose spiritual beliefs or faith, but be willing to share if they're asking questions on that or be able to find the right resource for them. So a typical day, if it's a shift, I try to do the whole shift. So midnights killed me because those that are doing mids are used to it, right I?

Tyra Valeriano:

work during the day.

Jeff Kunze:

Now I'm showing up and I'm going to get in your car around nine, three, 10 o'clock or you know you're going to drop me off at 6am, but some of those shifts were great because there's not a lot of stuff going on and you can just talk.

Tyra Valeriano:

Out of those conversations that you had with police officers, I'm curious, without, of course, being specific about any situation was a lot of their struggles based on traumatic experiences that they had at work or, you know, is it a wide variety of factors that are outside of work and home life and financials, and all of that, what is a common reoccurrence that you've seen within the field since you've been doing this?

Jeff Kunze:

Most of what I dealt with was incidences that happened on the job, and then we could talk later about how that was affecting a relationship or even how they felt about themselves. And just if you will, just one one quick thing. I worked with a police officer. Um, she worked a fatality. It was a, um, a partial ejection, without getting too graphic. But hey, officers are listening to this. Um, the body's twisted outside of the driver's side and so the person's alive. But as soon as you move that body, it's I think I've heard it say like a subway accident too. As soon as you move that body, the blood's going to flow and they'll die.

Jeff Kunze:

This was a teenager who had his license for 10 days. She was on scene, she was checking his pulse, they moved the body. He dies. I was not part of the death notification, but she goes. She has to knock on the door of his mom and say that your son has died in a car accident. And then she asked the question the mom did are you a mom? And she goes yes, I am, she goes. Well, I feel. So I'm so glad that another mom was holding my son's hand when he died.

Jeff Kunze:

Now, that messed her up. She had worked so many fatalities. So I get a phone call or a text or an email saying can you meet with such and such officer? I'm like, yeah, and she's like I am having nightmares. I am, I don't know that I'm crying. My boyfriend said talk to the chaplain. So, damn it, I got to talk to you. I'm like, well, let's talk about this. You're suffering what's called post-traumatic stress disorder, because it's been longer than 30 days, so let's walk through this. Now. I'm not a counselor, I'm not a therapist. I mean, I've recommended EMDR and other techniques that really help officers. But my job there was to let her know she wasn't going crazy. You're a human being and you became a mom at that death notification, not just an officer, right, and you got to grieve that.

Jeff Kunze:

And so we walked through the whole investigation. She talked it through and in this case she didn't need additional therapy. It just needed to get out and understand why she was feeling the way she was feeling. Her boyfriend said thank you, because she thought her world was. Why is this one bothering me so much?

Jeff Kunze:

Now, from my side of things, I ended up doing the funeral because this young man was a member of the congregation I was serving, so that kind of made it you know great from my end, but at any rate that would be an example of yeah, you're having a problem, let's talk it through. I didn't know her, her, that well. I've been in her car a few times. Um, it was out of reluctance that they, you know, or she told her boyfriend I'll go talk to the chaplain, so you don't want to lose her job, talk to a shrink and um, so, anyway, that's. I don't know if that helps answer the question, but that's one of the work-related instances that I feel I was able to help with. She took a risk to trust me and of course, she could.

Tyra Valeriano:

Would you say that your role? I mean, like I said, I think it's pretty amazing what you do, because this is not the experience I had in my career with a chaplain and even though, if I think back about the type of people I worked with, I'm not sure that they would be open to the idea. But if, let's say, it's out of your scope at this point and you're talking to them and you realize, hey, this might be a little bit more than what I can do for you, do you give them the resources? Are you outsourcing them to where they need to go to get the help that they need?

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, absolutely To get a good trauma therapist and I can help them through some critical incident stress management, but as a chaplain. But you know, to get a trusted resource maybe it's through the department. And what I would always say which I've done actually and doing right now is that I'll walk with you through that, so I'm not handing you off, let someone else deal with it. Let's get together for a cup of coffee and tell me how did that session go and was it helpful? You can fire a therapist and get a different one. So then that you know my role takes a little different. You know they can talk about what they're learning about themselves and so forth. And then you know and role takes a little different. You know they can talk about what they're learning about themselves and so forth. And then you know and I can listen, I have enough experience to know some of the terminology. I said EMDR before. So when it's stuck in a certain place, right, and that type of technique is is amazing, and and so to see them have success with that, and then come back and talk.

Jeff Kunze:

I'm working with a actually he just retired with severe ptsd, uh, major crimes unit, a lot of death, a lot of autopsies, like 400 autopsies in 400 on top season, three, five years. I don't know Um and he was going on some retreats and things too for officers for healing and um. So just to sit down with some coffee and hear about how it was going for him, you know it was. It was really special Um and it's interesting, in his retirement, which just took place about three weeks ago, he talked about um wellness, mental health for police officers because he was going for help and it works. And they have the war horse um ministry. I don't know if it's called a ministry, but it's war horse in the Kansas city area. So horses that are horses, have healing powers. So his goal was to help raise that awareness and I want to be able to say I know here's the danger of you having a pastor on a podcast. We will not shut up.

Tyra Valeriano:

Oh no.

Tyra Valeriano:

I'm very drawn into this. In fact, you've already mentioned something that there's certain things you've talked about that trigger memories for me in my career. Just hearing you talk about it, I'm thinking, you know, maybe I haven't dealt with some of the stuff that you know I've gone through, and this is just a realization for a lot of people who are probably listening. I'm sure you've said something that's resonated with them. And this is the indicator that, hey, there is stuff that you probably haven't dealt with. And this is why I'm doing this podcast, because it's so important to put it out there and make people aware that, hey, we might be holding it in and thinking we're good, but maybe we're not. And this is the opportunity that you have to say, hey, I need to work on it, I need to work on myself.

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, yeah, the brain stores everything and so it's because of this officer that I was working with I'm seeing a trauma therapist. In fact I have a session tomorrow afternoon, and here's where that went. I'm listening to his war story we're swapping war stories and from a chaplain's side of things, you know I mean I was still on scene, you know bad stuff and whatever and of course, him being a police officer, major crimes. Not that we're trying to one-up each other, but it dawned on me one time in our visits what if he turns the question around to me and says, chaplain, what are you doing for you? Because there's a lot of secondary trauma, there's a lot that I've absorbed over 30 years, walking with people in the darkest places, the darkest of moments. Yes, there's joys and stuff too.

Jeff Kunze:

So when I went to go see my trauma therapist, I found a really good one. She said why? Now I'm like that's a great question. Because I said I'm really good at compartmentalizing things, but all those compartments are full, so I need you to empty a few of them for me. Okay, cause I started getting some triggers from my own experience and working with trauma.

Jeff Kunze:

So I've recommended to so many officers, so I've recommended to so many officers the techniques that are out there. So for the first time in my life she took me through EMDR. I'm not here to promote that, but it is a technique that actually works. It's amazing. The brain feels like it's just run a triathlon. But I thought too I had dealt with this particular thing many years ago or that year, and it turns out I didn't, and so I feel I've got even more integrity now that I've gone to talk with someone and get some help, because I thought to myself as a chaplain I'm not opposing that, I'm stronger than you, the officer.

Jeff Kunze:

The chaplain system that's set up in the Kansas City area here now is much different than it was in the St Louis area where I served before, and I wish we would have the resources for chaplains back in the St Louis area, like there are where I'm at now. So I know a few chaplains where I'm at now. So I know a few chaplains and if the situation, if we've dealt with a situation, it's like protocol to call one another, call out, call another chaplain and say, hey, I just went through this. So it's kind of its own support system within. I mean, who's supporting those support people?

Tyra Valeriano:

who's?

Jeff Kunze:

caring for the caregivers and and that's if you're going to be a chaplain in this area, that's kind of a given you need to make sure you're not just compartmentalizing these things like I was doing. Make sure you're not just going hey, I'll just work through it and I want to be there for them. Who cares about me, and that's not a good place to be. And even though it took a long time in my ministry and career to recognize that that's not a good place to be, and even though it took a long time in my my ministry and career to recognize that, it's not too late. And if you have some officers listening now going yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years, 25 years, I know what I'm doing. No, it doesn't mean that you've been doing it wrong. You know you've served admirably with great sacrifice and experienced things that the rest of the world will never experience. It's okay to let someone help you process those things.

Tyra Valeriano:

All right.

Jeff Kunze:

I'm kind of curious.

Tyra Valeriano:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I want to ask you a quick question just based off of what you said, because you are experiencing the same things that the police officers are out in the field. You're in the car with them, you're able to joke with them, understand their humor, you're kind of just down, even with them, on their level, that they're experiencing at that time. I know this might seem like an odd question, but I'm genuinely curious. Do you have that dark sense of humor that they have and you're able to relate, or is that just something that's off the table because you are a chaplain late?

Jeff Kunze:

or is that just something that's off the table because you are a chaplain? Oh, if you don't have that sense of humor, oh yeah, the, the, the dark sense of humor I can, I can bring it up with the rest of them. Um, uh, absolutely We've, and it's funny because there's, um, there's so many people that the rest of the world would go oh, you can't joke about that, that's disrespectful. You're not. It's not disrespectful, it's just seeing that humor in the most bizarre and horrible you know that situations or or whatever. So, yes, um, yeah, I, probably a clergy, might have the worst sense of humor than other. Okay, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Jeff Kunze:

I was just, I was curious and I didn't want to forget to ask you. Yeah, no, absolutely In fact, if you're an officer and your chaplain's in the car with you and he or she doesn't see kind of the dark humor and things, then you can drop them off at the local gas station. They can get a ride home.

Tyra Valeriano:

So what is one thing that you would want to tell officers based on what you've experienced over the time that you've been working at the department? What is one thing or one piece of advice you would want to give them from what you've seen or dealt with?

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, if they don't have a chaplain program in the agency, I would encourage that. I would ask them to go to their supervisors and say this is the value of it and it's not about some people have a very horrible taste in their mouth for the church and for religion, jesus or whoever. It's not about that. It can become that if that's where the officer wants to go and I've shared my faith many times but it's about caring for the officers on a human level, as human beings, and being present. So I would encourage them, if they don't have a chaplaincy program, to get those that are certified or a member of the International Conference of Police Chaplains, icpc. Make sure that you get a good chaplain program going. And what's great is there's great networking, because that agency might say hey, how did you guys get your chaplains together? And then the hard work happens and then they have to go recruit pastors who will give of their time because this is volunteer. Most places are.

Jeff Kunze:

And hopefully that says something to the agency too that we're here because we care, not because we're here to make money. I was paid $1 a year from the St Louis area agency for legal purposes so that I could be on the insurance program if something happened in the car and I got injured. So when I left that agency I think I was owed like $3. It was three years I didn't get a dollar.

Tyra Valeriano:

Well, I mean the taxes on that. You probably wouldn't have any money left anyway. Just buy me a dollar. Well, I mean the taxes on that.

Jeff Kunze:

You probably wouldn't have any money left anyway, so just buy me a Starbucks.

Tyra Valeriano:

I don't even think the $3 would cover a Starbucks.

Jeff Kunze:

No, you're right.

Tyra Valeriano:

Yes, okay, so I I know that you said this is a volunteer job. One thing that I'm working on is a course for first responders to create a wellness program at their agency, and what is really part of that course is going to be I want to call it a catalog of some sort of resources that they have. Now, being that you work in a specific area, are you accessible to other officers in other areas, or are you just dedicated to the area that you're in and that's the only place that you can really just be involved with officers?

Jeff Kunze:

No, I've opened myself up, especially the men and women that I served in the St Louis area. I'm still in touch with some of them. Um, the last thing that I had there was a line of duty death funeral that I had to do, and then I left the area, and so I'm even in touch with his wife still, and how things are going with their kids and stuff. So those relationships when they're built, some friendships are built into and um, but then I've had others contact me from from elsewhere too, and, um, you know I want to help where I can. I don't pretend to have all the answers.

Jeff Kunze:

There's some really good chaplains out there that, um, some that even have more training than me, um, uh, who have the ability to um, either get get paid in such a way that they can spend more time with the agency, or retired and um, so I've always wanted to make myself available. I think if, if you are, if you've experienced something that's successful and and made a difference in someone's life, um, I think you owe it to pay that forward. That's over you saying, but I think you owe that to teach and to to share. That here's what worked where I was at. It doesn't mean it will work everywhere, but so when I was asked to help set up a police, a chaplain thing in this area, I just took my experience and said here's what I think you should do to have a successful program.

Tyra Valeriano:

Right and what before? We're running out of time, but I wanted to ask you what kind of training do you go through with the agency? What kind of training do they put you through? I know you mentioned that you got to go to the range and what is some of the training that they have you guys do?

Jeff Kunze:

back then was through the International Conference of Police Chaplains, and then they would have their seminars and courses that you can take and to go there and like a convention it is a convention if you will and sign up for certain things and get the training that you need there. Otherwise, my training would be through my profession with pastoral care and so forth. But my next step would be to I don't have my board-certified chaplaincy, which is what you would need in a hospital setting. There might be some agencies that would require that. I would think that you at least need to have a congregation or you're a member of the clergy to be a chaplain, you know. So I think that qualification should be a given and I think any additional training that they can do, and so the department I was with would pay for us to go for some course training and Okay.

Jeff Kunze:

And um certification.

Tyra Valeriano:

Okay, well, I know we are coming close to an end and I do normally ask everybody a question, uh, that I ask all of my guests, but it doesn't actually apply to you. So I'm actually just going to ask you if there's anything that you want to share with the listeners and if there's something specific you want them to know.

Jeff Kunze:

You know. I would just reiterate if you've got a chaplain in your agency, to get to know that chaplain, and if that chaplain is not making themselves available, then talk to the supervisors to say let's rethink what the role of chaplains can do for the well-being of the officers and their families. Peer support counselors put chaplains in there too, and so I would say, be an advocate for your agency too, and if you've got a good chaplaincy program, share it with surrounding agencies that this is what we're doing and and that makes a big impact on the community.

Tyra Valeriano:

Thank you for that. If there's any questions that the listeners have that they want to ask you, is there a way that they can contact you?

Jeff Kunze:

I think through my LinkedIn profile would be. I don't know how you share that on a podcast.

Tyra Valeriano:

Just maybe your name or how you have your name listed on there.

Jeff Kunze:

Yeah, so I mean it's, it's jeff kunze and okay, I believe that, though I believe that's all it is on on the willington profile there, right, and jeffrey kunze. Sorry, jeffrey is what. I'm in trouble, but yeah, j-e-f-f-r-e-y kunze, k-u-n-z-e and I should say olat Kansas, that's a suburb of Kansas City.

Tyra Valeriano:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, jeff. I appreciate your time. I really am excited that we had this conversation today, because not only was this very different than what I have interviewed already, but this shows a different perspective to the whole purpose of why I started this podcast, and it was actually an eye opener for me as well. So I appreciate your time. Thank you for all of your expertise and your knowledge and for sharing that with us, for those of you listening. Thank you for tuning in, be safe and we'll see you on the next one. Thank you for joining me on Chapter Blue. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow and tag me on social media and share with your friends and fellow officers. If you're interested in joining an episode, I'd love for you to be a part of the conversation. Until next time, stay safe, take care of yourself and remember you're never alone in this journey.