A Federal Agent’s Journey Through Justice, Burnout, And Renewal

A federal badge can open doors and close in around your life. We sit down with former Homeland Security Investigations special agent Glenn White to unpack a career built on Coast Guard grit, high-stakes drug and cyber cases, and a harrowing controlled delivery in Lahaina that forced a split second choice not to fire. Glenn talks plainly about the wins that kept him going, the trauma that followed him home, and the “light switch” moment when he realized the title couldn’t define him anymore.

You’ll hear how early drug interdictions gave way to complex cyber investigations into child exploitation, and why compartmentalizing horror is more myth than method. Glenn shares how peer support and therapy sharpened his most powerful tool and what de-escalation looks like when statistics and promotions chase felonies, not humanity. His immigration perspective is grounded and real; behind every administrative category is a parent, a partner, a child, and a system that needs lawful, humane pathways to match reality on the ground.

We also pull back the curtain on whistleblowing and retaliation. After Hurricane Maria, Glenn questioned luxury lodging on taxpayer dollars while Puerto Rico rebuilt without roofs. Reporting what he saw cost him training, promotions, and peace. He took the agency to court, lost on timelines, and still walked away with something bigger, clarity and a plan. Today, he channels that resolve into an NGO fighting human trafficking, a documentary mapping U.S. exploitation corridors, and climate resilience work inspired by his Harvard research, including blockchain-backed resource tracking and renewable energy for Pacific communities.

This is a story about integrity under pressure, identity after the badge, and building a life you can stand behind. If you care about law enforcement culture, immigration realities, trafficking prevention, or leadership that serves people first, you’ll find hard-won story here, and a nudge to bet on yourself when it matters most.

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Transcript

Meet Glenn White In Hawaii

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Thank you guys for joining me for another episode of Chapter Blue. Today, my guest is Glenn White, and he is joining me all the way from Hawaii. So thank you for making time for me today and to join my podcast. Glenn has over 14 years of experience as a federal agent with ICE and Homeland Security investigations, but I don't want to take away the glory of giving his background. So, Glenn, if you would be so kind to let us know what your background was and what you're doing today.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Aloha, everyone. My name is Glenn White, and I'm a former special agent with Homeland Security Investigations. I was previously employed here at Special Agent Charge Honolulu. Prior to that, I was active duty Coast Guard. And I started my career, I guess you could say, like in Florida way back in early 2001. And the I I wanted to be a pro surfer, but um I had a colleague who was like, um, I was bartending at the time, and and and my buddy had come in and he was like, bro, I just went to the Bahamas and we went fishing and we caught some drug guys and it was amazing. And we all got drunk, and and I was like, where do I sign up? And uh so I I went and and uh joined the Coast Guard and I was I guess I was about 24, 25 years old, and then um I went to a a cutter in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and and uh where I I thought I you know I was gonna be doing some cool stuff, and I and it was some of the best years of my life. It um we patrolled and and we would on on the west side of Puerto Rico, it was a lot of um migrant interdiction, and then on the east side of Puerto Rico, we did it was like all drug interdiction. And so about two weeks a month, we would go out and and and and just do something. And um, I mean, it it was you know, right after 9-11, it was legitimately still pirates of the Caribbean and uh chaos and all of that that that you can imagine. Um I was so I was our cutter, um rescue swimmer and emergency medical technician. And so I got to see a lot of in you know really hands-on things, and and then um I did that until uh I I loved it. I so I was a sailor at heart, and and then I in 2004 I transferred to Coast Guard Station Port Canaveral, and and um that's the area where I'm from. So it wasn't as busy. We just didn't have the the kind of volume. And and um it was it was there that I I started really thinking about okay, uh, you know, what what's my next move? And um am I gonna stay in the Coast Guard or you know, what do I want to do? And I and that's where I started looking at um possibly going into federal law enforcement was during that tour.

Coast Guard Beginnings And Interdictions

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Awesome. So when did you start your career with federal law enforcement? And what was that like?

Breaking Into Federal Law Enforcement

SPEAKER_01 3:21

So it was kind of it, it it kind of was a lot of luck. Um, and anybody that's trying to get into federal law enforcement knows that it it takes years to get hired. You almost have to, it you it's a game of patience. And so um at the time I was stationed in the Virgin Islands, and I and and uh so I I was just taking classes at a community college, and then um a colleague had sent me a link to to a to the uh customs test. And so I was like, uh okay, I I didn't have a degree at that time or anything, and and so I I was really like, I don't know how I'm gonna do on this test. It seems kind of prestigious. And I went and took it in Tampa, and then that was I want to say 2008. And then um in 2000, yeah, at the end of that year, I got out of, I left active duty and I went into the Coast Guard Reserve and then um had some personal things going on in my life. So I I decided, you know what, like I want to go surfing, and I want I I want to live and I want to be happy, and and I'm gonna go to University of Hawaii and I'm gonna go surf and and I'll figure it out when I get there. And then um, so that was right around the time when they offered they changed the the GI build, and it included like a housing stipend, and and so it actually became doable that you could go to school and then you still had to find some alternative employment in order to live, but you could actually go to school and and get by, and um so I did that, and then I picked up uh my first federal job was at NavVak, Hawaii, and I was like still arguably one of the best jobs I ever had. And and I was this environmental compliance guy, and I would drive around to like all the units and then and tell and explain to them how to dispose of their hazmat. And and I and I just got to know some of the most amazing people, and I had like all these historical landmarks, the USS Arizona, the the park there that I had Fort Island was all under in my portfolio, and um so it it just the problem was it just didn't pay. And then what ended up happening was I was still waiting to become an agent, and and every single time I, you know, it was like you'd have the interview. And well, so I was here in Hawaii, and and as luck would have it, I took the test in Tampa, and then I got I happened to be at up on the Gulf Coast. I I was a part of the responders to the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. And so I got a call saying, hey, we you know, if you still are interested, you need to be in Tampa at this time. And I was like eight hours away up in Pensacola. So I ended up, um, it just worked out. I moved the schedule around and I I went down to Tampa and I interviewed. I I remember going to like um I went to the mall there in Tampa and I just bought like like the suit that I didn't even it didn't even fit. It was so big. And and I I don't even, yeah. This is funny. I was just not prepared at all. And then um, you know, you have all these like gatekeeper type things that they ask you, and and then long story short, I I went back, I came back to Hawaii after that, and then was back in school, and then I um a year like a year later it said, okay, I you know, you you were selected, and um now you got to go do the medical evaluation. And um so I when I was on active duty, I I had some some stuff, and I was kind of like, oh man, you know, is this I hope this doesn't set me back. And and then when I went to the medical evaluation, I had to go through like all kinds of follow-ups. And keep in mind, I this was like pre-Obamacare, so I didn't have any health insurance. I was, you know, dishing out this out of my pocket. And then um I remember the doctor was gonna send me to more follow-ups, and he's like holding the clipboard, you know, and he's like, ah, yeah, I don't know. And I was like, and I put my hand on it and I was like, bruh, like I I ain't got time for all that. I just need you to sign at the bottom so I can get about my so I can go about my day. Cause, you know, and you know, he's thinking about it from a provider's point of view, and I was just like, I need this job, man. I don't know, you know, and so he just goes, he kind of looks at me and he's like, okay, and then he just and then that was that. So I ended up um and then and then so what happens after that, you go into a pipeline, and so I was under the veterans pipeline, and so keep in mind by now, like I applied, I took the test in 2008. This is now 2011, and I'm just like on, dude, it's been three years. Like, and and I was I was uh a low-level GS9 out here, and I and I loved it because I had a whole bunch of great friends and I had so much flexibility, and I I it was my first time ever really working like an alternative work schedule, and it was and so my boss was like, Yeah, we'll do four tens, and then you can have like one day off a week, and I was like, Oh, and I could go surf and whatever, you know. Um, so I remember um I had I had met a girl and that summer, and then um subsequently we ended up getting pregnant, and so in the fall of 2011, I remember thinking like I'm about to be a dad. Like it was it was kind of very reminiscent of like if something's gonna happen, it needs to happen now with this. Cause I, you know, I can't I can't raise a kid on three grand a month. So sorry, you know, and um especially here in Hawaii. And so I was like, I called and I would call like you know, once a month, where am I out on the list? Am I gonna get an academy date? What's going on? And then um I was told that like I yeah, I was told that that I had been reset, like they had somehow the agency had they didn't realize that I was a veteran. And so it it put me kind of in a like like further down on the list, and I was supposed to go to the academy like way earlier, but it all worked out, and um I had an I had a an aunt pass away um from a self-inflicted gunshot wound on Halloween in 2011. And then on the and so I was kind of dealing with that emotionally, and then on the first of November 2011, I got a call and it was from the Dallas Service Center, and they said, Hey, we want to offer you this position. And I was thinking I was gonna end up going to the border or something, and then um they said, Oh, we're gonna offer you Honolulu, Hawaii, and um your class start date is uh December 4th. And I and I just remember just like just crying because I was just so emotional, like something so tragic happened, and then to just like the very next day just be like everything that I needed, and then that from yeah, and then that was that was when I started life as a federal agent.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

So you have worked your whole uh federal agent career in Hawaii, right? That's where you've done your whole career when it comes to ICE and Homeland Security and all the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

As a duly sworn credential law enforcement officer slash special agent, yes. I I did I did uh take a cup uh TDY to Puerto Rico in the aftermath of Hurricane Maria. Um, but yeah, I'd say 90% of my career has been here in Hawaii working, working this place.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

That's pretty awesome. I mean, I would say that definitely luck was on your side because when you apply for a federal job, you're not always going to get where you want to be or where you want to go. They will just throw you wherever is available. So that's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

It was. And so um, yeah, and I in in the relationship that I was in, and I we had talked about that, and I was like, you know, like there, I might end up going to the border or something like that. And she was like, Well, good luck. I was like, uh, you know, and so I I just remember being this like area of contention, you know, because she was like, I'm not going anywhere. And I remember thinking, um, okay, well, there goes my dream right out the window. If I don't get this, if I don't get Hunter, so not only did I have to get, you know, I was trying to get the job, but I had to be in Honolulu. So yeah, I, you know, I I definitely um hit all sevens on that slot roll.

unknown 13:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Well, let's get into the the meat and potatoes of your career. I know we talked a little bit before um we started the podcast episode today, and there was a lot of stuff that you did in your career. Um, it sounded fun. It sounded like you had a really good time. Um, but you did 14 years and you do have a message that you want to share with the listeners when it comes to your career and the life that you're living now and some experiences and revelations that you've had. So let's start off with uh the career side of things. What was the best part for you and what was the maybe more difficult side for you?

Landing Honolulu And Early Cases

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Um, the best part, I think, um I I made some lifelong friendships, you know, and and I got this opportunity to work in a community that is that is really um dear to my heart and you know become a part of it. Um and it's it's just like those are the the the small little impacts that you make, you know, and when you're able to um balance the scales of justice, you know, um it that's very fulfilling. And so I I I used to live for those moments where I I could really make a difference and I could see it. Um and I I started out in a drug group and um drug cases are are typically um they can be complex for sure, but you know, at the interdiction level, um not too complex. You know, you you as you know, you hit the the person and then roll them up. You might get up two, three degrees if you're lucky. Um, but past that it gets to be a uh like it can be really complicated. So at the early phases for me, um, I was just doing a lot of like one degree, two degree drug cases, and and then it kind of turned into like whack-a-mole, you know. Um it it was never ending. Um and it and so that that feeling, it it kind of it wasn't there anymore, you know. And um right around the time I remember started feeling that uh like I got I got asked to join a task force at the Joint Interagency Task Force West. And so um, that's a DOD-led agency that their sole mission is just combating drug trafficking. And so I got asked to lead a group of people and that had done the things I've done from maritime law enforcement to narcotics and all the and some of these other programs that I was in. And um so I I went up there and spent a year up at they're located at Camp Smith, and that's under the um PACOM chain of command. So they're like the leader in the Pacific realm. And it it was uh phenomenal. And then um when I came back after that, was a one-year assignment with the Coast Guard Reserve, and then when I came back, um I was in the I went into the cyber group, so which is like in the hierarchy of investigative programs, you know, there's levels of complexity and then on up to the highest. And I mean, I mean it's debatable. You you could ask, you could probably get around, you know, all the dogs around the poker table, and then they would all be like, well, my program is more complicated, and you know, oh yeah, well, what about this one time? And you know, shut up. You know, so it's like every we all have our own opinion, you know. So um, but yeah, I I went to cyber and and I got I got that was when things really started to impact me, and I I just got thrown into doing child pornography and child exploitation, and um those that's the hard stuff. That's you know, as a as a parent, as a father, like I I realized that I lacked the ability to compartmentalize, you know, what stay when I leave work, how do I just leave that? Like I'm I'm a I'm a human being and I don't like there's like no matter what, there's overlap. No matter how hard I try, no matter how many, how many weights I I lift or how many miles I run or how many waves I surf, like it's still there, if that makes sense. So anybody that's done go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

How did you deal with that? I mean, I know we talked a little bit about prior to our episode that Hawaii is a little bit different when it comes to the entity that you worked for. It's it's kind of separated in a way. Uh, did they have resources for you guys when to deal with things like this? I mean, was there anywhere for you guys to go or any any person to call? How how did that work out?

SPEAKER_01 18:37

So typically, you know, I as you know, the law enforcement is has like there's elements of toxic masculinity in it. And that's not to speak to a gender, it's it's the head, it's the type A personality that, oh, then you're not tough, you're not you you have to have thick skin in this game. And um, the way that you handle it, the way that I handled it was um around that time, uh like I decided I was like, you know what, I think I'm gonna go get therapy. Like, and I'm gonna go pay for it out of my own pocket. Yeah, the agency, what the agency does is they're like, oh, we we've got this um liability deflecting employee assistance program, aka e ap, where you call, they send you down this phone tree never to be seen or heard from again, where you it's just like an endless array of push five, push this, do that, like and nobody nobody gives two shits about you. So that that's how that went. And I, you know, I I never got to a place where I felt like I needed that, but I would ask my colleagues. Um, and so yeah, yeah, I did I probably didn't tell you this, but so when I got hired on in 2011 until 2018, I was the only one, I was one person, the one brand new agent for seven years. I was a rookie for seven years, and I was like I I had ever like I just did it all, right? So can you imagine that being the rookie for seven years? There was that was during President Obama's um hiring freeze. So we weren't there was nobody behind me, you know, and so like yeah, I I it was a little bit rough, and um, but I just kind of pushed through. And going back to the best part, I had I had really good people. Um Marcus Mariota's father, his name's Toa Mariota. Um, Marcus Mariota was Hawaii's Heisman winner in 2015. Um his dad was my boss, and and so he was just like a big Samoan guy, and and he's just like one of the old school um immigration naturalization service guys, and he he supervised like we were his family, and and I like when I was in that group, yeah, we fought like siblings, and you know that is we were that close, but that was probably one of my favorite times in my entire career was working for Toa. And um, I mean, you know, watching him on the like the Heisman Awards and then seeing him, you know, three days later in the same shirt he wore, like at the award ceremony, and then you know, Marcus coming by the office and and saying hello to everybody. He signed a football for my daughter and like that. So that that level of of what we like we call Ohana, you know, it's it's not a it's not a blood thing. It's it's a it's a feeling of of res mutual respect and understanding for each other.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So very nice.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah. Um yeah, that's how I dealt with it.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I know you mentioned um before peer support. There was uh we kind of touched on peer support. Is that something that you had in your career?

From Drugs To Cyber And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 22:22

So in 20 in 2017, um yeah I want to say loosely 2017, ICE expanded its peer support program and took on um a clinician named um Ken Ken Williams I believe is was his name Dr. Williams and um so he came from Border Patrol and he wanted to expand the peer support program. And um I was asked to be a peer support member. So I I went to Washington DC and and did a a course with him and um it it was it was really good. It was one of those those life skills that I felt like needed a little bit of work but it also is applicable to your everyday you know your everyday street street cop who's out there and you know might be short on those sensitivity skills. You know sometimes people they're they're not you know when when you're when you're making bad decisions and you're breaking laws it's very likely you're under duress so how do I handle that I don't you know the best tool I got is between my ears. Why don't I use it to de-escalate the situation and just listen sometimes like if I give you an extra 15 minutes and listen to what's on your mind I might be able to de-escalate this whole thing keep somebody out of jail keep somebody from getting killed and prevent other other loss of life right you know and so that's what that's what that program kind of taught me.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

There is uh the reason why I asked about that in particular is because there are two things that I want to ask you about. Number one I want to ask you about immigration because obviously this is something that we are currently experiencing that I know you have experienced in your career. And there are a lot of people in law enforcement that I think I would like to say that there is a divide um there's people who are okay with the immigration and being the the person who deports people from the country but there's also the other half who are not okay with doing this. And um I that's why I asked about the peer support because you actually served during a time where immigration was also an issue and I'm curious to know if peer support was something that was utilized, if it was useful not that you may have needed it for the immigration side but that is kind of playing hand in hand today. And this is what we're facing.

Child Exploitation Work And Trauma

SPEAKER_01 25:00

So tell the listeners a little bit about what it was like during that time and the immigration um experience for you in your role um so I never use peer support like I I I when I was doing immigration so um immigration when you're an agent with HSI usually is very um up to recently it it wasn't considered anything like tangible so yeah you kind of got to look at the framework of HSI and how they get their funding and their their their funding comes from stats right promotions come from quantifiable stats and arrests are stats, felony arrests and so the big boss they want they want criminal arrests and going after somebody that's an overstay or um in violation of their visa whatever it is that's an administrative stat. Like that's doesn't do anything for the your supervisor or their supervisors what we call like their performance work plan. And so everybody has a performance work plan and that's how they get they they get to the next level they just they have to be able to say well I manage X amount of people who conducted this amount of many cases you know put put this amount of dollar and dope off the street and et cetera et cetera right so when I was doing immigration nobody nobody cared about it. But in order you have to learn it and so one of my first cases was a a foreign national um and somebody had had we had a tip line and somebody reported this foreign as an overstay blah blah blah so I tracked him down and and then we we went to pick him up and um of all the immigration cases the only one that really stuck with me and he had overstayed his his visa here and he because he he got a local girl pregnant and but she subsequently broke up with him after that and and he was here trying to be a father and um the what my problem was that there was no pathway at that point to find like some type of amicable solution that doesn't you know um create some type of of disruption for that family because I I'm thinking about that kid you know and in 20 years that kid is going to be a victim of some type of trauma and how do you triage that you know I it's it's right here. So you know I I I deported them but I I felt horrible about it because I there was just no way and he couldn't come back for five years you know and he had to come back the right way and I you know and I I think as a society there there has to be a pathway you know for people that did not come in correctly and any other way I just I I mean I get it the law is the law and rules are rules but laws are made by Congress and and history tells you that they have made dumb laws that they've gone back and revoked. So why can't they create a path for people that have um come in come in the the non-traditional way and if it means you have to pay a penalty or if it means you know like so I I'm I'm not a politician so but I think all of that framework was there you know and so now what you're seeing is is the the boiling over of the other side you know because one you know when when there was an opportunity to change the framework and create a path nobody did anything you know it was the the attention was everywhere and those guys are too busy giving themselves raises every other week and you know whatever whatever the media narrative is pushing and unfortunately like the American public we're you know we're the ones that suffer and and those of us on the front lines of it you know when you're tasked to make a decision you know I'm always going to do my job but you just make it infinitely harder for me to do my job you know if when they aren't doing their job and and that's why we are where we're at.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

So I know in the beginning you had mentioned that um you want to be able to talk about things that you weren't able to talk about as a uh as an agent. And I told you I related to you because I felt the same way when you're a police officer you can't go out into the media you can't get on social media and make a video about you know X, Y, and Z and tell your side of the story. I mean you kind of just have to zip it and deal with it and hopefully it goes away and you just never have to think about certain things again. But now you have that freedom where you feel like you're able to finally talk about things that you know maybe you've always wanted to talk about or that you've never really gotten to address is what's that like now and is there anything in particular that you want to discuss?

Peer Support, Culture, And Coping

Immigration Ethics And Real World Dilemmas

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah I don't even know where do I begin you remember that scene when Andy Dufrain crawls out of the pipe and he's standing in the rain like in Shawshank Redemption that's what I felt like you know my last day as an agent was December 27th and it it's taken some time to let that go and and uh you know be grateful for the time that it was and and and I recognize that um yeah there there's gonna be a lot of stuff that like that I that I remember over the periods and go oh yeah you know and and um but I just yeah a whole bunch of of things come to mind um I'm I'm so fortunate and grateful that I had the opportunity and that that I I had that experience because of the friendships that I made and and you can you can never never put a price tag on that you know it's um I lost some people um and I I'll tell you I always wanted to be a a a federal agent from the time I joined the Coast Guard I I thought we were we were offloading um migrants in Mayaguez Puerto Rico in 2003 off of the cutter and I was standing on the bridge of the cutter and I was on watch and we were there like tied up to the pier and and the guy and the these guys showed up and they had these really cool cars and they had like the sunglasses and then they had these ray jackets that said ice on him and I was like whoa that's what I want to do man that's that that just looks cool and I remember my friend being like yeah I bet they get chicks and I was just like yeah right you know like we were just like we were just like how out and you know and then and then from that moment on I was like I want to be a a surfer that's also an agent and then it just became this thing and um until it wasn't and what I realized out of that was like you know that that was my dream job but I didn't really know the magnitude of what the cost was you know I spent 13 years of my life you know putting people in jail and and um doing my best to make this community a safer place but you know I also wasted a lot of my own time you know and um and that that's the message that I would say to like my fellow what do you call 1811s you know um at some point it's gonna end you know and um we get so wrapped up in this this identity matrix of you know well I'm I'm this you know I I'm I'm a special agent so that that defines Glenn White until you go to therapy and then you start to deconstruct those things and then you realize like actually I don't need that to validate who I am I validate my own stuff and I don't give a shit what you think about me anyway. So middle finger to you I affirm I decide and then it's just like it's like a light switch and then from that and from that moment on when that switch went on I was just like okay now here's my financial situation you know how do I how do I get to the next level you know um but up to that light switch point there was a lot of stuff where I I questioned like you know I I mean I I I like I almost died I was telling you um and and um when I realized that the agency was just like okay you know I was like wait what yeah do you mind uh repeating that story so that the listeners can hear about that incident that you were involved in for sure so Maui Lahaina Maui um 2015 so we I did a a controlled delivery and if you're not familiar with control delivery it's where you intercept the parcel and it usually has some type of contraband in it and then you remove said contraband and then you send the parcel on its way it's it's a um just a strategy to catch catch a bad guy and and so what happens is it's a joint interagcy thing yeah um you you the parcel gets gets makes its way to where it's supposed to go and then from that moment on like you see who grabs who who grabs a parcel. Now during this particular operation this individual um the parcel was opened and everybody sprang to grab the guy one of the guys um jumped in his truck and and um sped off kind of down front street well he started he he turned into this tennis court and I and I ran behind him and then I saw an the DEA supervisor in front like and I'm in his line of fire and he's drawing down on the guy and then and so I was like oh shit and then I I kind of ended up back in the road and and so the guy like came barreling out in reverse like full you know pedal the metal and did like some you know drift thing and and there and so I'm in in a confined spot and it was like well I d I really don't know how it ended up happening but instead of stand there and get hit and I was kind of triangulate triangulating the guy and I had a gun on him and then the way he turned the car it was either get on the car or get hit by the car. And so I ended up on the car and then um and the guy takes off. So now I'm on the car hanging onto the car I got I ended up flipping around and and I had my left arm inside the driver's compartment because he had his window down and and then I had my my gun was in my right hand and I had my gun on the guy's head and I just remember giving him commands you know stop the fucking car and and and he was just like bang and then he just like tried to just go even more and then and that was the moment where I you know I I remember like the background and seeing tourists like on the other side you know kind of in my line of fire and and I just was like I you know what I don't this isn't who I am you know this like I don't know if the like real like slow motion things like they are it's a real occurrence and and I remember thinking like I'm not gonna kill this guy this you know and it it didn't matter like I could have shot the guy but he at that point I felt like I didn't want to own that I'm not I'm that's not who I am unless my life is directly impacted or my colleagues then I'll shoot but in that moment I didn't feel like it was it was uh it would have been it it was just something I didn't want to do and so you know this is all going on at about 30 seconds and so then I I took my gun and I stuck it on my chest and I was like I can get the fuck out of this car. And then so like he had running boards and so I kind of I remember my feet were like hanging and then I felt his running board and I saw like a break in traffic and and then when there was a break in traffic I just jumped off the car and I rolled through the street with my gun on my chest and then um some bystander on the sidewalk just pulled me up by my body armor and then like you know two seconds later I otherwise I would have gotten squished. So um what was the result of that what happened because we didn't get to that part what happened after you jumped off and you were rescued I mean this sounds like a freaking movie to be honest but really what happened with that with that case um oh man so so this guy like by now so I like laid there for a second it seemed like forever and I was just like and I could feel like blood dripping on my head and stuff and I was just like and and I I kind of I stood up and then I was a few blocks from the house where we had executed the operation I started like I was like I was kind of like walking back and I guess I was in shock because I didn't even think to like holster my gun and then and then um I got back and the my partner that I was there with and I he was like are you okay man we saw the whole thing and I was like and I remember thinking do you see that guy motherfucker trying to run me over you know and then like and then and then so we ended up securing the house and then and then we went back out and Lahina's a real small place. So there's only there's one way in and then the road splits and then it connects and then there's one way out so it's just so good. So like we were on the radios monitoring and and there's all kinds of chatter and and and um and another team was like hey we we got him and so this guy that that I that just happened to he went down to where the road splits parked at the beach right and pulls a skateboard out of his car and starts skateboarding back to town so it's just like so oh my so we're like oh this is funny I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

No no no this is great but so so I hear it on the radio we're we're like on the other side of town about three miles um on the other direction and this guy he was with the the uh I guess you call it the south part of town and so it was going to take us a minute to get there but the other team like they're like oh that's Tim and then they hook back and I remember hearing on the radio like the driver going hey man you got this I can't run after him the gout's kicking in today and and so like yeah my my buddy went up and so the guy ran up into this like homeless encampment and grabbed the guy and then um and then we brought him back you know the story actually ended way better than what I thought I I was expecting it to be you know law enforcement we got him and that's it took him to jail but no that that was good I mean he there's not anywhere he could have gone anyways so I I wanted to ask you because in your situation most officers who are listening might be like what I would have shot that guy you know what I mean like but when you really put that into perspective and you think about not only you know what you felt but also where's this guy gonna go I mean really where is he gonna go yeah no exactly and so we when we got him we you know we put him on the plane and I I remember think like he was he was so you backtrack this the the person was of Polynesian descent and um some uh Polynesians are big people like they are like this guy he was a big man and um I mean he if if it would have been the in a one-on-one I would have lost because and they're like if you like if you know anything about Polynesians they're like genetically just really strong just yeah I and and I have so much respect for that culture but this guy as big as he was to be sitting on the plane and he was crying because of what had all just happened and I guess it was that in that adrenaline dump and he was like I am so sorry and please you know and just letting it all go and I was just like I am not friends with you you know and then I didn't I didn't I couldn't even get mad at him but just uh just I was like I am not your friend I'm very upset with you you know I could have died you know and and and then that I just remember giving him like a stern scolding but I didn't use any kind type of like there was no anger really it was it was like the way I would scold my kid I guess you know and um yeah he he uh you know he he he he was indicted and convicted and all that stuff but yeah that that was um those operations are are really what bring guys together when you get through it and then you know you have a laugh and you know it's like oh yeah I remember you remember that guy he got gout and left you like hang

SPEAKER_01 44:00

In and you're like, yeah, that fucking guy, you know, like bro, why even be on the operation if you can't if if you can't run and help me out, you know, like and speaking to the point that this guy was really big, the guy that went after him, you know, is this is a stocky guy, but he, you know, he's not over six feet, and he would have probably gotten his ass handed to him, you know, if this guy wanted to get squirrely.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

You know, and talking on that, it's funny because we're talking about it, and it's funny. I mean, I'm I'm laughing over here. I I'm I think this is like a comedy show. This this sounds crazy, like what you your kind of cases that just sounds wild. Like, I don't think as a police officer, I've ever encountered something so crazy like that. But um it I'm sure in the moment it wasn't that funny, you know. It's like, dude, really, you you can't keep up with him. Like, what are you doing? But now when you talk about it, of course, I think we can all relate that we can go back to some of these stories that we were just pissed off, or you know, incidents where we're just like, what are you doing? And we can laugh about it now. But that's kind of you know, just to touch on that.

Identity Beyond The Badge

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I got plenty. I I think any any most like law enforcement officers will tell you, like, you know, when you have your field training officer, right? You're gonna do dumb stuff. It like whether it's like you're so proud to be an agent and you're like, look at me, I'm an agent. Like, I think we've all probably done that. I'm a police officer. Yeah, look, look, I'm carrying a gun. See, like they trust me enough to give me a gun. How amazing is that? And then you don't really understand the magnitude of like, yeah, you're tasked with taking somebody's life if need be. And and that's where like it took me some years to really grasp the and have the bandwidth to understand that. And and when I started feeling like, uh, I don't know. Um yeah, I had one of my one of my rookie things that I did was we had a a child exploitation case on in Hilo on the big island, and it was a quick turnaround, and we were going to do a search warrant on house, and and um I knew about it, and you know, we the everything was all set to go, and I I showed up, you know, we had to fly over there, and I showed up and I got to the airport, and I was like, uh I don't have my body armor. Shit. So like the the lead agent on it was she was I was like, uh yeah, I don't I don't have my body armor. Um, and and she was like so mad, and she made me go sit in the car, you know. So I was sitting in the car for like an hour, and she's like, No, you cannot turn the HD on. You can roll windows down, no AC for you, you know, and I just was like sitting sitting in the car while they they hit the house, and then and then she's like, Oh, oh, and yeah, I'm swapping out roles. You can be on evidence, and and as you know, doing evidence sucks. You know, you're just like, oh no, I don't can I just like do the room, take photos or something, you know, like and and uh yeah, so and then on the way back from that, like I had to, I took this um, I had this pelican case with all of our evidence locked in it, and and there was no like mou between us and TSA. So they were like, oh well, we'll just search this. And so they're searching all of our evidence, and and then subsequently some of it got lost, and yeah, you know, so now you know, now the evidence is lost, and it's like I'm writing memos and trying to explain you know where evidence got lost, and you you're just like, uh yeah, you know, so huge learning experience to there on that one. Um so many more. I mean, just funny stuff that just happens, some not so funny, some you know, life-changing, some, you know. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

So what do you what are you doing now? Like, did you have yourself set up for a plan after you decided to leave being a federal agent?

The Lahaina Controlled Delivery Incident

Aftermath, Arrest, And Reflection

SPEAKER_01 48:16

So I would so I was um affiliated to a a very uh um popular investigation here in Hawaii, um, United States versus Mike Miskey. And um Mike Miskey was convicted of racketeering in uh 2024, amongst a whole laundry list of other things. And um back in 20, I want to say 2018, I I was at this intersection of my personal values, my personal integrity, and the agency. And um I was TDY to Puerto Rico, and I had observed some things that I didn't agree with that that particular office was doing. And unaware of how interconnected um people at that middle management and senior management level are, um I I I felt compelled as a steward of taxpayer dollars to do the right thing, even if it meant you know, my whole career or whatever, you know. Um Hurricane Maria left Puerto Rico leveled, and I and I was there twice. And um so the reason that I that I'm talking about this is because this is the kind of the foundation of where that light switch came on and and how I started to um think okay, it might be time for a change. Um so on on an island where you know a category four May landfall went directly um horizontally like through the island and and leveled cities, people were homeless, that you know, and not food, infrastructure, it was all gone. And that in the in the fall of 2017, when I was there, um things were starting to come back online, they were starting to recover. And I had a I had a friend who who when I was there previously that owned a bunch of hotels, and and he in he was telling me how like they were gonna be hurt because of tourism and and that stuff or whatever. And I said, Whoa, man. And um I said, Well, you guys are are are how is your hotel? And his hotel he was on the south side of the island, so it wasn't anywhere near where I was, but he was like, Yeah, most of us are we're all empty, and so I was like, Whoa! And it it didn't match what management was telling us, and so instead they had us, you know, probably a hundred of us staying at the Condado Vanderbilt, which just the name right there tells you that it was overpriced, you know, and I had this oceanfront suite looking a balcony, and uh, and so you know, I can't remember anywhere seven, eight hundred bucks a night. And and I was there long term, but the government rate was only like 150. And so I, you know, being in the middle of all this chaos, I I didn't feel I personally didn't feel good about it. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna go down. And so I went down the street to uh I think it was a Hyatt or Hilton Garden in, and I said, Hey, do you guys have any vacancies? And they said, Yeah, we're you know, we don't have we don't have any um we're we're we're like pretty much empty. And I was like, Can I get the government rate and yada yada for these people? And and they were like, Yeah, for sure. And so I went back and I tried to make that pitch to my management saying, you know, you can save this amount of money, you know, just by making a shift to hotels. And keep in mind that we were getting daily per diem, you know, on top of the hotel and what have you. And I and and it was I was quickly silenced. And I was like, you know, at the lowest level, before I'm a special agent or anything, as a federal employee, I'm supposed to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars, you know, and so I I didn't I didn't feel good about it. And and um, and then I was thinking, this just feels corrupt, you know, you have all these people staying the whole office, like most if if unless your house didn't get a scratch, they put you up at the the Vanderbilt hotel at this luxurious expense. And and how can you look at yourself in the mirror when all these people around you have lost everything? And you know, and I told you I was stationed in Puerto Rico before. These this was what a you know, mi orgullo and my family, you know, and I've been going to Puerto Rico since I was a kid, and and it was really dear to my heart, and I I was like, nah, man. And I and I thought about it and thought about it, and so I I reported it. I reported it to like through um the DA Department of Homeland Security Joint Intake Center, and knowing that it could have cost me everything in that career path, knowing that I after that, once you hit send on that email, you're done. You know, HSI ICE is a really small agency, and there's a network. And once you go shake the tree, you can't go put the fruit back. Um, but I came from the Coast Guard, you know, and that's where my fundamentals and values were built. And I and I believed in it, and I still do. Um so when I when I sent that, everything changed. I came back to Hawaii and and then it was just like night and day. Like this, the I couldn't get training that I needed, um, any kind of professional development that I was qualified to do. I couldn't, I I was just denied. Um, I had I wanted to go to the Naval Postgraduate School that that summer and and and I was overqualified. And I asked for an endorsement from senior management. And the senior manager at the time, um, she's like, ah, you're not good enough. Where I had like, I had my supervisor, their supervisor was like, Yes, yes. And then that senior manager was like, nope, without any real good justification. And so I was like, uh, all right, you know, and in my head, I was like, nah, no worries, I'll do it on my own. And then so that by her telling me no, was how I ended up there, you know? And so in in this weird way, it um it it created, you know, like something better. But um, yeah, so that was the start. And then from then on, it from that moment when I made that report, um, yeah, it was kind of just downhill from there, even though like I I I try I personally tried my hardest to say, nah, this can't be, you know, like I these are good people, you know, we're all agents, and you know, but when you see when you see people, you know, um coming into the office in Hawaii from South Africa on a 30-day TDY to rearrange the file room, and then at the end of the 30-day TDY, they get a cash bonus, they get a plaque, and then you know, you you're like, oh well, I I bet my money that's who's gonna get promoted next, you know, and and you're just like, why am I making you know, breaking my back here, you know, putting in the work, doing whatever I can, and I was and I was crushing it every year. I I had great evaluations, had um got cash awards every year, um, because I was doing the job, but I I wasn't allowed like to go anywhere further. Any anything that could have could have propelled me to that next level, nah, you know, it was like nah, nope. And yeah, because I had applied for promotion to the group supervisor GS14, and I was in the same group of people, and subsequently, um, the the other two people that that I that I took the test with, um, they they got promoted and then moved on to other things. And and then I, you know, and I was sent back to the uh, you know, one one more round, you gotta wait till next year, kind of thing, you know. Um so yeah, and then around that time, I had talked about Mike Miskey, and you know, um we were we were I was on the public safety group then, and then we were loosely affiliated um with his investigation and and um helping the FBI shore up certain parts of it because um Mike Misky was involved, he had his hands in so many things from like illegal illegal fireworks to alleged murder to you know I mean he had a full-on criminal enterprise. Um and around that time COVID hit, you know, and so this was now it's like 2020. And I had decided that, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm I'm going to I'm gonna I'm gonna start plotting my escape. And I had applied to the Harvard Kennedy School, and then I and I started taking courses there. And um, and then I was so yeah, I was sitting here and then March yeah, March 2022, I was doing a class and then um my house got shot at. Um and a week later my house got shot at again, and bullet holes all in my car, all my son's car seat, and you know, and I remember you I I reported to the agency, and you know, the same supervisor that told me that I wasn't good enough to go to the Naval Post Graduate School gave me a memo and said, Oh, that's personal. Um, you're on your own, call EAP. Yeah, true story.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Wow.

Rookie Mistakes And Hard Lessons

Whistleblowing, Retaliation, And Roadblocks

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah, with I mean, so this the crazy part is that that was a week later. Oh, I got that that memo from the acting special agent in charge a week later. And it was like, oh, so you mean to tell me in a week you were able to conclude with your magnificent, you know, Magnum PI skills that it was a personal shooting? Well, how do you know that? Did you catch the guy? No. Did you talk to the guy? No. Has he ever been arrested? No. So how the f do you know that? Like the only person that knows why they're shooting is the shooter themselves. So yeah, but you know, that that's that's stellar leadership right there, and you know, and it it just re-kind of iterated everything that I had gone gone through up to that point. And you know, there was definitely a dichotomy between my career and people that that were getting hired at that time. And um, and I was just like, man, you know, my headspace was like, I'm never the victim. I will not be a victim. I will outwork you, I will smoke you. And and and I stayed that way. The only the only thought where I realigned myself was I was like, I'm gonna do this job, and I'm I'm gonna focus on finishing grad school. And that that became my like obsession, you know, and so um I that that's where I I had to redirect my energy and and and take the loss, you know. Um I went through a lot of stuff and that that whole year, and true to my point, like that that uh acting special agent charge, she ended up hiring a bunch of her friends and promoting them all and creating like like this um we called it the wine and cheese club, you know, where like they would go out drinking together and partying together and being at each other's houses. They're like, you know, they're all hanging out in the luxury suite, you know, at the Ritz-Carlton during the, you know, the the Hawaii Law Enforcement Association um conference and just stuff that I'm I was still blown away by, you know, and what I realized was that like at that level, there's there's somebody is protected, you know, and there just has to be some type of checks and balances, you know, are am I gonna be the one to do it or you know what have you? I I don't know. Um I ended up filing a lawsuit against her and against the agency. Um and that lasted two years. Um and this past summer, I was they we we went to mediation and um true to fashion, I they we they tried to mediate, but I wasn't that really the Kush promotion wasn't what I wanted at that point. Um I wanted accountability and and I and it meant more to me than any than any kind of paycheck. And I like I'm I'm just not designed that way. Like I and it only resolidified that those facts. You you can't buy me. I'm not gonna be bought, I'm not gonna be broken. And and I said, hey, let's go, let's go to trial. You know, I had been to trial, like I'd I've been there done that as an agent. Yeah, let's go. And then we went to trial, um, and it was two days of trial this past September. And I I had my moment and I and I spit it out and shared everything and that I that I went through. And um, and then the decision came out, I lost. And um, under the the rules of of what would be deemed a whistleblower retaliation, um there's timelines you gotta meet, certain elements based on on case law. And while like a reasonable person would believe it it was retaliatory, um, that the timelines didn't actually match up. And so um I was so psyched because I I went in the battle going like I'm you know, metaphorically burn the boats, you know, like that's just uh you know, an old expression to saying I'm I there is no other way around this, is through it or no, and I went through it, and then um I went through the whole process start to finish, and from having my house shot at, from like all of it, like harassed by manager, like all like it was fucking crazy, and you know, all while trying to still do my job, still be a dad, still in grad school at Harvard, you know, and then I I was just like I yeah, I I even though I lost, I like I won in a way, if that makes sense. Because I was just like, I didn't think of it like that. I thought of it like, you know, you if you want to be a diamond, you gotta get cut, you know, you gotta go through some stuff, you gotta have the pressure, and then oh, you think it's over. No, no, no, no, no. Then it's like you you just have to keep going. And so, you know, I I had I finished graduate school in May, and that was where like I reaffirmed those those identity things that I'm not being a being a police officer at one point it's gonna end, you know, being a federal a special agent, that title is gonna end, you know. Either I'm gonna retire or whatever, but then what? Like, I don't want to get pushed out. I want to choose. I choose, you know, and after I lost, I did some really hard thinking. And I was like, well, what am I gonna do? You know, like of course I got scared and uh, you know, um, but I was just like Fuck that. Like, I'm punk rock. Like, I'm channeling my inner Chuck D. I'm gonna go what by all means necessary. Like, and I want to be an inspiration to those people that if you're in a shitty situation at work, get back to those basics. Like, what is important to you? What's important to me? Are my kids surfing and living a life of a purpose? Um, yeah, so I like I I was I was there and I was like, um, yeah, I I I think I'm done. And it wasn't like I thought about it, and then I, you know, of course I had been planning this, and I when I really started deciding that all this was going on, I had I had this to save, I had to consolidate all my expenses. I sold my home to fight this legal battle. I I um yeah, I I made my focus all about intrinsic value, things that can't be taken away from you, you know, and that would be what what I would would share with other people. Like you are the only person that can really validate who you are, what your existence is, you know, what is your identity. If you want it tied up in some title, when you lose that title, you're gonna be really distraught. But if if you've always self-validated and stuck to your values, I stuck to my values since day one. I never tarnished that badge, ever. And you know, and you know, people ask you all day long, oh, can you run this guy's plate? Can you do this? And I'd always be like, Nope, cannot, will not, sorry. You know, I mean, and that and that validates me. I'm proud of that. And whatever, you know, whatever people say, let them say it. They're not living my life, you know, like what I find value in and what they find value in are two different things. You know, I live in Hawaii, where like, and I'm a surfer, so I find value in being able to go to places like the pipeline and sit out there with all the boys and talk a story and catch waves. Elon Musk can't do that. You know, there's just certain there, there, this culture is is not like that. You people here do not care what your title is, what kind of car you drive, they don't none of that. And so, and I'm very much a part of that. And once I realized that what my value, what what I value, you can't put a price tag on. And then it was, and then it was just easy. I was just like, I'm out, and then you know, so I didn't think anything of it. Um yeah, and so you asked me, what am I doing now? Um so one of the perks of going going to Harvard was you make all these really good friends, and so you're you're uh exposed to some of the arguably the most the brightest and people that are really passionate about making a change. And so um I was asked to join a non-governmental organization that focuses on human crafting, and so um I was like, yeah, I'll do that. Like I have the background, I I've done that, like absolutely, and so um I I do that, and then um we're actually in the process of making a documentary capturing the impacts of human trafficking in the US and in key cities along certain areas where you have um like a high volume of human trafficking, those corridors within the US that touch a border where you know um you have vulnerable communities. So uh yeah, that's one thing. And then um I've also been going um up to the Coast Guard. So like on on the uh here at the the federal building here in Hawaii, we the Coast Guard is um on the ninth floor, and um getting back to those basics that made me who I am, you know, when I was thinking of like what am I gonna do? Well, I'm still in the Coast Guard Reserve, you know, so I had that like avenue, but I wrote this graduate thesis on um an innovative way to prepare for climate change and um specifically to uh the island nation of Kiribat, which is down in the South Pacific. And um, and I've just really passionate about it. So I'm sitting here thinking about it, going, I yeah, I was an agent, but now I want to go to the next level. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. I want to be that guy that, you know, when you when you see me, you know I'm I'm fighting for you and and I'm fighting to make real tangible change in ways that can be quantified. And so I've been farming out my paper to like anybody that'll listen. Like Tulsi Gabbard has my paper. So good. Yeah. So the now, the now director of intelligence. I saw her surfing and I was like, Tulsi, can I send you my paper? And she's like, Yeah, yeah, here's my email, send it to me, you know. So like it's like, yes, yeah. And then so um I I've been farming out this concept of of using renewable resources, you know, and combining it on a blockchain, like similar to Bitcoin, as a way to track resources to create um sustaining revenue for a developing country. So there's so many things that like now we don't have to give you foreign aid because you can you can grow your own economy and you you can track your resources and all that kind of stuff. So it's it's been such a ride, and um, so I've been doing that and and I've been going to the Coast Guard every day for free, you know, um just getting back to the basics of just showing up, you know. Like I think when it comes to those uh, you know, if if a position opens up or what, you know, we're in this phase of chaos at the federal level or whatever, and people are like, oh, you know, I'm gonna lose my job or whatever. I mean, I just left that job, you know, and I I would rather work for the Coast Guard for free than work for HSI for close to 200 grand a year. That should tell you everything you need to know.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

So and uh, but you know, the hope is that like I get exposure to some of these really um senior leaders that are making impacts in this community that are doing great things that are still in line with uh you know um the values of what it means to be uh an American. Um and yeah, so like that's why the Coast Guard has a uh such a special place for me. It's always been my my baseline, you know. Um, and it's it's why I'm I'm still doing it after all these years, still putting the uniform, so like, you know, because it it was my compass, and you know, so well, thank you for sharing your story.

Lawsuit, Trial, And Personal Resolve

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

I mean, I am completely intrigued. I I feel like what you've shared is obviously there is some vulnerability there because it is a touchy subject and it is your career, and it's an experience that you went through that probably other people are going through too in in the government field and even just in law enforcement in general. There's a lot of similarities that you described that I know a lot of people can relate with. Um, we are running out of time, but I always ask my guests, there's one question that I ask all my guests, but I think I might change it up for you a little bit. Uh, you gave some really good tips on identity and trying to find out who you are outside of the title. So, aside from that really good point, is there one tip that you can give the listeners that you think is very important for them to know based on all of your experience?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:17

Ooh, um I I think I, you know, I think I've kind of laid it out. I I guess if you take a step back and and you know, my foundation was built on on just a a Q a few um core values. And um, you know, we're all gonna go through hard times. Everybody, everybody has had something, you know, and it's real easy to get into a headspace of like of of you know, this happened to me. Okay, yeah, I uh you know, empost empathy is a thing, however, you need to move, you know, like as a law enforcement officer, you know, you if you if if things are going sideways, you can only stay in one spot for X amount of time, but you cannot be afraid to move. You have to move, you know, and you I'm never gonna go backwards, I'm only gonna go forwards, you know, and and I start that with things that I can see that I can control. And for me, it's it's um, I start with my in my physical health. Like I'm very active. I'm I do my best to stay physically fit um because it aligns with my my goals as a surfer. And and I want to be able to be the best surfer for as long as I can to my ability. Um, and I would suggest to somebody have something outside of what your career path is that you can go to and and talk story, what we say, talk story with people, or like um be in a community of non-law enforcement people. There's like I love that community, but you know, I also I need to realize that there's like a billions of other people out there with real life stuff, and they're going to work and they're managing portfolios and they're changing the world. This isn't the end of it, you know. So I I would just say like, you know, don't ever quit. Whatever your goals are, just keep going. And and I and and I told my I said that to my daughter, you know, and she said, Well, yeah, but you you're not an agent anymore, didn't you quit? And I said, I said, Yeah, but if I would have stayed an agent, then I would have quit on myself. So you absolutely have to always be willing to bet on yourself, you know your value, you know what you're worth. Don't let anybody ever tell you what you're worth. You decide. Because that's what makes this place that we live in, right? Great, right? Like it's freedom of choice. And when when somebody tries to to put a metric to my value, no no no no no. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. I decide. And you decide for you, right? So that that would be my my best advice. And and don't always stay true to your values, you know? Like I yeah, I do I yeah, absolutely. I mean, could I have not not reported that? Sure. And you know, nothing happened, you know, and then of course nothing happened. But you know, who's to say? You just you, you know, now I can live with myself, you know, because why is it that we're only enforcing this crime? You know, I I I had a guy come through the airport, you know, with 11 grand and I took his money as a bull cash seizure because he didn't report it properly. Okay, fine. But then I watch uh, you know, a senior executive like waste hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that's totally okay. Right. So stay true to those values, you know. That that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:35

I like that, Glenn. Thank you for sharing that. Um, I couldn't thank you enough for joining me today. If there is any contact information that you can share with the listeners, if they would like to reach out to you and ask you any questions, do you have something or somewhere where they can go for that?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Um, absolutely. So you could reach me at my LinkedIn. It's um Glenn with two N's H White. Or um I'm also on Instagram. That's um uh at ontologically kyme-key. O-n-t-o-l on top. I got it. I got you. I got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

I'll put that in the description for you guys. I'll put a link so that way you can connect to him on Instagram and also his LinkedIn. But Glenn, thank you so much for joining me today. It was a great conversation. You had me drawn in. I wish we could talk about all the stories that you have to share because I feel like we could probably talk about that for years. I would be asking a bunch of questions. I mean, it's pretty interesting. And obviously, you come from a different aspect of law enforcement than I do. So your stories are obviously very different than mine. And so I just think they're very interesting. Hopefully, we'll be able to keep in touch and we can talk about those stories over some coffee or something sometime. And maybe that might be something we can bring to the to the podcast in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I would I would love to talk again and and and come back on and whenever you want to have me. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:00

Thank you for the listeners for tuning in today. As always, I appreciate you guys for tuning in. Without the listeners, we wouldn't have a podcast without my guests. We wouldn't have a podcast. So I look forward to sharing more of these stories with you guys in the future. As always, take care, be safe, and we'll see you on the next one. Thank you for joining me on chapter blue. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to follow and tag me on social media and share with your friends and fellow officers. If you're interested in joining an episode, I'd love for you to be a part of the conversation. Until next time, stay safe, take care of yourself, and remember you're never alone in this journey.